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yeah, just a quicky

everyone seems to favor the rocket launcher (obviously) why not make a rune that is invulnerable to the RL, but weak to the shotgun?... same thing for the thunderbolt.

actually, maybe even combine the two, and make a rune that's totally invulnerable to explosions and electricity, but really weak against the shotgun.

you now have a game where runes get as many frags as battles

IThe idea of an infinate amout of runes all at once, every map, will hurt the game. Once again, Steve you misread or without asking, just assume. I know you don't like me and I could give 2 flips, but ask my intent first.

I too, heard it was Rune Quake. I'm not saying "no runes" at all. I'm just saying if you want different runes, get rid of some of the existing ones. Or, create all the runes you want, just make it so each map gets about 25 runes on a rotation basis. The idea of an infinate amout of runes all at once, every map, will hurt the game.

Why not allow alt weapons to only affect armor? Why not allow only one alt weapon usage at a time?

That's nice, you like them.... well, liking them just took a big part my game away... I'm an evasive type of player... and that's part of the game, evade when health is low, or when weapons don't have enough ammunition, or when I know I'm out skilled etc. If I go to a place where I can wait out another player then pick up stuff, that's what I would do. But because of the gas spamming, and gass going thru walls, or BFG killing thru walls, hooks killing faster the RL, I can't so lets just keep gearing the game up for the 20% of really skilled players and cheaters, and let the 80% average players and less skilled players take a hike. Why just 75% gas, make it 100%, what's the difference if a player is going to spam gas grenades so what if it takes 10 versus 15 to kill thru a wall. And another thing, how should a hook penetrate armor and kill faster then some of the weapons, it's ridiculous. Then it's made even more ridculous with rune duplication. Let 2 players have radiation rune on E1M7 and the map is dead, why play? All I'm saying is improve the game for all players, all styles of play. Not for just a few players by throwing every which way people dream of to get frags into an already one sided game. Between the runes and the funky weapons, there is no real strategy left in the game. You might as well have a nuke rune that someone could throw into a battle and let God sort it all out.

Author:	tbone [ Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:	new rune idea
yeah, just a quicky everyone seems to favor the rocket launcher (obviously) why not make a rune that is invulnerable to the RL, but weak to the shotgun?... same thing for the thunderbolt. actually, maybe even combine the two, and make a rune that's totally invulnerable to explosions and electricity, but really weak against the shotgun.

Author:	Baker [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:22 am ]
Post subject:
Zen Monk is largely invulnerable to the rocket launcher; it takes a direct hit to cause any damage and in the hands of a good player it can be a LONG time until that happens. An Electricity Rune holder (I think) takes only 50% damage from the lightning gun. It would be cool to have a new rune of some sort at some time to spice up the game. I think it's been about 2 years since a new rune has been added. Some possible ideas (mostly thinking about what was best from Widomaker): 1. The rune I thought was the most fun from RQP was the Missle Shield. You had a missle orbiting you and if it made contact with someone -- well that was an easy frag. 2. There was a Luddism Rune -- that really never was popular but could be tweaked to be more desireable. It made it so you took normal damage from Quad and Berserk. But those 2 advantages weren't really enough. A better version would make it so it has those abilities and immunity to bombs, BFG and gas grenades and could damage a Pent holder (maybe) and perhaps throw in immunity to the piercing rune. Sort of the opposite of the environment suit. 3. Merge self-preservation and ammo regen runes. Hehe. 4. RQP had a homing key that made rockets and nails find a target if one were available. Basically seeker missles. A rune that did that for 30 seconds would be cool. 5. Jack the 60 second limit of the Flight Rune to 5 minutes

Author:	*CanadianSniper** [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: new rune idea
tbone wrote: yeah, just a quicky everyone seems to favor the rocket launcher (obviously) why not make a rune that is invulnerable to the RL, but weak to the shotgun?... same thing for the thunderbolt. actually, maybe even combine the two, and make a rune that's totally invulnerable to explosions and electricity, but really weak against the shotgun. Not a bad idea but I'd think it would have to be a temporary rune since it holds a big advantage in the battlefield. Like a 1-3 minute time limit.

Author:	Mysteri [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Here we go again.... why don't we forget about any runes at all and have just everyone start with 10 percent health. That would be all the easy frags anyone wants... no runes needed. Like I said before, you now have a game where runes get as many frags as battles... keep them coming and there won't be any reason to play... You should be talking about fixing the bugs that exist on Schmack now instead of creating new ones with new runes. Example: Gas GL going thru walls??? BFG going thru walls??? If those can then every weapon should, then it can be really silly. Again, if a player on E4M3 runs to get away from being fragged because of low health and goes into the little room where the red armor and teleportor under the elevator floor is, he has no chance against gas and BFG. This server is way too geared up for just the skilled player, never mind the new guys or players not as skilled. Keep those runes and bugs coming folks and pretty soon you'll have a small group of the skilled and the cheats playing this game... all others will find new games to play.

Author:	Zop [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:43 am ]
Post subject:
Well, gas is less powerful when the explosion is on the other side of a wall, and all those particles are there for more than show, at least.

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Author:	steve [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:12 am ]
Post subject:
mysteri wrote: you now have a game where runes get as many frags as battles Last I checked, this is a RUNE Quake server. If you don't like runes or the style of game a runes server brings, don't play on it.

Author:	Mysteri [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:
I too, heard it was Rune Quake. I'm not saying "no runes" at all. I'm just saying if you want different runes, get rid of some of the existing ones. Or, create all the runes you want, just make it so each map gets about 25 runes on a rotation basis. The idea of an infinate amout of runes all at once, every map, will hurt the game. Once again, Steve you misread or without asking, just assume. I know you don't like me and I could give 2 flips, but ask my intent first.

Author:	steve [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:
mysteri wrote: IThe idea of an infinate amout of runes all at once, every map, will hurt the game. Once again, Steve you misread or without asking, just assume. I know you don't like me and I could give 2 flips, but ask my intent first. Talk about misreading and assuming. Where in this thread was it mentioned to have an infinate amount of runes? Someone suggested a few new rune ideas and all of a sudden there's an infinate number of runes?

Author:	Mysteri [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Steve, I know it's a suggestion, but if most suggestions are taken seriously then the rune population grows. Again all I'm saying is to contol the growth by either retiring some as new ones come, or place a limit per map with different runes each map. That's all. If you only want suggestions from people you are receptive too, fine, tell me that you don't want my suggestions and I'll stop posting here.

Author:	steve [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:
You can post whereever you want. This isn't my site nor my forums. I have nothing to do with the Shmack server or the Runes mod. I'm just an avid fan of the mod.

Author:	Zop [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:02 am ]
Post subject:
Ask Slot to put in votes for each rune.

Author:	Baker [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:
mysteri wrote: I too, heard it was Rune Quake. I'm not saying "no runes" at all. I'm just saying if you want different runes, get rid of some of the existing ones. Or, create all the runes you want, just make it so each map gets about 25 runes on a rotation basis. The idea of an infinate amout of runes all at once, every map, will hurt the game. I think Mysteri is right about some things. For example -- and I can't find her post -- but one of the worst changes in my opinion are the gas grenades. On small maps some players basically just spam them all of the place and get a lot of easy frags by holding down the attack button. Although that sounds like something that newer players would do, it is quite the contrary. Most of the unstoppable players constantly spam gas grenades and there is no hiding from them nor can you follow someone who is spamming them. I feel it dumbs down the game and honestly I think it is so cheap that I never use gas grenades (I stopped using them almost 2 years ago). Sometimes I lose to someone I could have beat due to my refusal to gas grenade spam, but I'd rather earn my 50 frags by playing Quake. I might add, the gas grenades pretty much ruin many of the small maps. I think it would be better if gas grenades only did a reasonable amount of damage if you don't direct hit, didn't go thru walls (much or at all) or maybe used more grenades to throw.

Author:	*CanadianSniper** [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:39 am ]
Post subject:
That or make it it's own rune maybe?

Author:	toyo_mr2 [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:24 am ]
Post subject:
I'm more concerned about how each rune affects gameplay rather than the number of unique runes available. Generally, I'm against any rune that will allow you to obtain frags while you're away making a yummy sandwich. Alt weapon spamming is a problem on every map, not just small ones, where players converge. Even if you diligently avoid the danger area, you'll be hard-pressed to compete against someone who racks up frags by employing the technique in question. Factor in the auxiliary frags from weak, newly spawned players and you have someone who arguably incurs far more frags than justified by his actions. I don't use alt weapons, but I don't fault those who do. Players should be able to take advantage of anything the game allows, be it from a quirk or bug. It's the responsibility of game designers and admins to control what is permissible. The ability to grenade spam is certainly not a bug, but I don't think it's affect on gameplay was thoroughly thought out. Why not allow alt weapons to only affect armor? Why not allow only one alt weapon usage at a time?

Author:	Slot Zero [ Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:12 am ]
Post subject:
vote-alts

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Author:	Baker [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:40 am ]
Post subject:
toyo_mr2 wrote: Why not allow alt weapons to only affect armor? Why not allow only one alt weapon usage at a time? Bombs and BFGs are rather ineffective in racking up a lot of frags, maybe due to the time delay. Plus they require a lot of ammo and you have to have certain hard to find weapons. For example, usually there is only 1 SNG on a map and it is usually somewhere out of the way. Plus you have to have 10 rockets to do a bomb and everyone knows you fired it and they have a few seconds to leave. The BFG takes a lot of time to fire and requires 30 cells. You also have to have the LG and make the choice to waste all of those cells. I don't use alt weapons very often, but the joy of actually fragging 2 or 3 people with bombs or BFGs is a satisfying (and pretty rare) thing. But the gas grenades are all out of whack. I have seen countless times maps where a high quality player got 25-30 cheapo gas grenade frags by spamming (and you can't follow the spammer to kill him/her because you can't even go thru the cloud of gas the spammer uses to prevent you from following them).

Author:	Slot Zero [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:00 am ]
Post subject:
Gas grenades go through walls because I have no control over the animation (particle spray), which also goes through walls. The gas does 75% less damage when blocked by a wall. I like them, and don't see them any more severe than say BFG or bomb (when used correctly).

Author:	Mysteri [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:
That's nice, you like them.... well, liking them just took a big part my game away... I'm an evasive type of player... and that's part of the game, evade when health is low, or when weapons don't have enough ammunition, or when I know I'm out skilled etc. If I go to a place where I can wait out another player then pick up stuff, that's what I would do. But because of the gas spamming, and gass going thru walls, or BFG killing thru walls, hooks killing faster the RL, I can't so lets just keep gearing the game up for the 20% of really skilled players and cheaters, and let the 80% average players and less skilled players take a hike. Why just 75% gas, make it 100%, what's the difference if a player is going to spam gas grenades so what if it takes 10 versus 15 to kill thru a wall. And another thing, how should a hook penetrate armor and kill faster then some of the weapons, it's ridiculous. Then it's made even more ridculous with rune duplication. Let 2 players have radiation rune on E1M7 and the map is dead, why play? All I'm saying is improve the game for all players, all styles of play. Not for just a few players by throwing every which way people dream of to get frags into an already one sided game. Between the runes and the funky weapons, there is no real strategy left in the game. You might as well have a nuke rune that someone could throw into a battle and let God sort it all out.

Author:	Baker [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:
There are a number of maps that I feel are completely ruined by gas grenades. E1M5 is one example. But it isn't so much that some maps are prone to be ruined by gas grenades, but more that gas grenades are so easily abused. Strong players will always have a lot of rockets; weak players never will. I've seen incredible lameness of certain stronger players just grappling around a map constantly spamming gas grenades everywhere with a rune like strength or jack of all runes (or worse Berserk). And it pays off with hordes of frags. The problem has gotten worse not because the gas grenades are new, but that a critical mass of realization of how to get a lot of frags with them. Back when they were new, few players exploited them. I think it would be fine if the damage from non-direct hits were depowered 50% and made them take 5 rockets instead of 3. Or maybe a longer refire delay or maybe the pq_grenadespam/remove GL thing if more than 5 are thrown in a row. I just know there is way to much emphasis on gas grenades. Read a console log sometime on a map where someone wins by 20 or 30 frags and unless it is a larger map often as many as 50% of the frags are gas grenades (which doesn't even involve aim!). I might add, it isn't that weak players are exploiting it. Weak players never have 99 rockets. It is being exploited by players that are strong enough to not need such a crutch to win.

Author:	steve [ Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:38 am ]
Post subject:
mysteri wrote: That's nice, you like them.... well, liking them just took a big part my game away... I'm an evasive type of player... and that's part of the game, evade when health is low, or when weapons don't have enough ammunition, or when I know I'm out skilled etc. If I go to a place where I can wait out another player then pick up stuff, that's what I would do. But because of the gas spamming, and gass going thru walls, or BFG killing thru walls, hooks killing faster the RL, I can't so lets just keep gearing the game up for the 20% of really skilled players and cheaters, and let the 80% average players and less skilled players take a hike. Why just 75% gas, make it 100%, what's the difference if a player is going to spam gas grenades so what if it takes 10 versus 15 to kill thru a wall. And another thing, how should a hook penetrate armor and kill faster then some of the weapons, it's ridiculous. Then it's made even more ridculous with rune duplication. Let 2 players have radiation rune on E1M7 and the map is dead, why play? All I'm saying is improve the game for all players, all styles of play. Not for just a few players by throwing every which way people dream of to get frags into an already one sided game. Between the runes and the funky weapons, there is no real strategy left in the game. You might as well have a nuke rune that someone could throw into a battle and let God sort it all out. So the game should be suited to your style of game play? Maybe you should adapt your style to the server instead of having the server adapt to you? You just want to be able to run and hide in the teleport room on e4m3 lol BTW, I still don't see where BFG goes through walls in teleport room on e4m3. Was just playing that this morning and it didn't go through walls...